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"It is better to fail aiming high than to succeed aiming low. And we of Spurs have set our sights very high, so high in fact that even failure will have in it an echo of glory." Bill Nicholson. SPURS

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Monday, February 21, 2005

Atouba - Why?

The first really bad performance from a Jol team came on Sunday against Nottingham Forest. We never really got going, scored a lucky goal and then screwed up big time for their equalisier. To be honest we are lucky to have a replay after some of the performances by some of the Spurs players.

We started slowly and got slower. Why Atouba continues to play at left back is beyond me. While some of his defending is ok most of his overall game is a let down. His crossing was generally rubbish with most of his balls being crossed from about the half way line and dropping to Forest defenders, nowhere near any of the Spurs forward players. His inability to clear the ball almost led to a late Forest winner and he was then roundly booed by the Paxton and East Stands. Booing is wrong but Atouba needs to drastically up his game. Someone please tell me why the Swedish defender of the year is being kept out of the team by a clown.

Other players were not much better. Carrick never imposed himself on a Championship team which is something he needs to do if he is going to break the England squad. Kanoute was off the pace and Defoe wasn't much better. Jol did a very od thing as well. When Mido and Keane came on I was convinced that he was replacing the front two. However Ziegler went off and we switched to a 4-3-3, the same 4-3-3 which worked so badly against Portsmouth. We lost all our shape and exposed the woefully bad Atouba even more. We also lacked any width and Keane went up front and Davies slotted into the middle three with Brown and Carrick.

Jol, however, was refeshingly honest and said what was wrong. He didn't hide away and his honesty is one of the reasons why I really like the guy. We are still making amazing progress from where we were in May last year.

I hope this is a temporary blip but with Chelsea now out our chance of appaearing in a final this year is rapidly improving. Newcastle away will not be an easy game but we won't have the chance of playing them if we don't up our game asap.

87 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

433 was against West Brom not Portsmouth.

7:49 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree totally but don't you mean we played the 4-3-3 against West Brom and not Portsmouth?

7:53 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is true! im a big spurs fan and believe yesterdays performance was dreadful! we couldnt make 3 or 4 passes and the crosing was way below average! i dont know what Atouba has on his minds sometimes, i dont think hes had a good game recently! hopefully Martin will change the team saturday against fulham and i hope i can come home after the game with a smile on my face!

7:55 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

hopefully we can put da forest game behind us, we have a great team and a top class manager! keep up the good work Martin! Fingers crossed we can get that europe sopt!

7:59 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

my thoughts exactly, atouba is a liability

8:00 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

atouba is shite.

8:05 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

agree...slightly.
As spurs fans are we destined to a life of booing and eternally critisising our own players? not a good game, i think we've all taken that on board but turning on our own players is not the way to go. Bad performance, as long as we improve there is really no need to drive our own players out. Whether they need a kick up the backside or not.

8:11 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i think edman does a better job than atouba!!! jol is a good manager but needs to pick a front 2 ie defoe and another. mido if he plays consistantly. Fredi has to many off days and keane, who is quality, doesnt score enough to be ahead of Defoe.

Its great to have a healthy squad but a great side only makes changes when needed not because of the sake of it. Look at chelsea and utd over the last few months. you can gaurantee 7 names on there sheet on ours you can name 3 robo leds and carrick

8:13 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Anonymous Gaddur said...

When I read the headline I assumed that it was questioning the booing on Atouba. I find that kind of behaviour sickening and those involved should get some professional help.

I can understand that Spurs fans have been impressed with the Swede, and I like him a lot. But I don't think he is as physically strong as Atouba. The African player is also taller and I guess Jol thought that his qualities were more needed, especially since Pamarot was not playing. I think people often overlook aerial abilities when picking their own favorite team.

8:15 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Blogger Paxton Road said...

My bad, I did mean WBA.

8:21 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree Atouba is shite! when have you ever known a africian player to be a good defender?! Neva! He plays about with it too much in dangerous areas and will soon get caught! his attitudes is poor and when things aren't going well he's not interested, doesn't press and is lazy! Considering his size he is shit in the air aswell and he couldn't pass water! You can see how the rest of the defence is becoming nervous. Get Edman back, he does what needs to be done and consistently! we have great attacking options so why play an attack minded player in defence. I ope Jolly see the error of his ways and asap. Glory is around the corner and its about time 2.C'mon Spurs, we deserve it!!!

8:23 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Where has Edman gone...?

8:39 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Where has Edman gone...?

8:39 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I disagree with the post above that says we're never happy unless we are booing our own.

Whilst I don't really agree with booing individuals, the ones that get the stick are the ones that are CONSISTENTLY shit.

It's not a one-off.

9:01 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Anonymous Paul Stevens said...

Atouba is the new......... Mitchell Thomas, Terry Fenwick, David Tuttle, Paulo Tramma whats it all rolled into one. Surely Big Bad Martin can see that!

9:09 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Blogger shane kiely said...

what about ifil
was he not doing a good job
at the start of the season

9:11 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pure entertainer. Too many people have forgotten what football is all about.

Atouba doesn't do any more or less than all the other players on the pitch, but because he's by far the most spectacular player we have then everyone notices.

Leave him alone - he's only 22. Let him grow.

9:23 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i am frustrated as we seem 2be so yet so far from being a very good team.edman should play every week.mr reliable in my opinion.4-3-3 is a shit formation 4us.they never no wat they are doin with that formation.i like jol but i wish he wud pick an 11 and stick with it week in week out.this rotation is bollox.robbo,edman,paramot,king,naybet,zeigler,brown,davis,davies,defoe,mido.very good side.

9:25 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Atouba had a very poor game against Forest, but he wasn't that much worse than anyone else. He is clearly a very gifted player naturally. He has amazing skills and is a great athlete. He's played in the Champions League already with Basle and was one of their star players.

He's only 22 and young in his first season in a big league. Give the boy a break. He's had some good games too you know. He was brilliant against Portsmouth playing left-back.

Maybe Edman could come back in for a while, but the booing of Atouba was fucking sickening. It's not like he's a Milenko Acimovic who didn't seem to be putting in the effort. He works hard and seems a genuine guy.

The constant fucking aggro at Spurs and the turning on our own players backs at the slightest dip in form is a symptom of the underachievement in the sugar years, but it has GOT TO STOP if we are ever to get back to being a good team. DOn't these twats see that it only makes the players really nervous at home, especially in big games and cup ties where the ball somtimes becomes a ticking time bomb as nobody wants to be on the ball to get booed?

We have too many impatient twatish fans like that dick head Nick from Enfield that phones up talksport every week and if Spurs have won we are the greatest team in teh world and if we haven't its the rubbishest team he's seen at the Lane for 50 years blah blah blah and this player should be shot, this player hanged, this player blah blah blah

FUcking wankers the lot of them.

9:28 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No good african defenders? bit far-right... Don't slam me for being a gooner cos i aint, but Lauren and Kolo Toure are both quality African defenders, Sammi Kuffour is, or was, quality, and then there's this bloke called Naybet who seems to be top notch, cant remember where he's from or who he plays for though...

9:36 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

phil ifil is a right back mate

9:37 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

4-3-3 would work with keane and defoe playing behind kanute/mido on his own rather than keane behind the front two...and of course as the big man sais "We needed good service but our movement in wide positions and our crossing was below par,"

9:43 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

4-3-3 would work with keane and defoe playing behnd the target striker kanute/mido, rather than keane playing behind the front two...and of course as the big man sais "We needed good service but our movement in wide positions and our crossing was below par," C'mon u Spurs!

9:46 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Atouba is a wooden one

9:52 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am absolutely sick of Spurs fans getting on the backs of their own players. Admittedly, I would rather see Edman in the team ahead of Atouba but I would never dream of booing him. What is that going to achieve? The only thing that I can see it achieving is ruining the confidence of a player who is a real prospect. Yes, he may have had a few dodgy games this season but he has also had some good ones and shown that he is versatile and has potential to get better. Lets face it, Martin Jol knows considerably more about football than everyone who has commented on this article put together so I for one have complete confidence in whatever decision he makes.

If we are to really fulfill the potential that this exciting young team has then we need to get behind our boys, EVERY SINGLE ONE! Good times are ahead, lets do our bit to make sure they arrive soon!

The future's bright, the future's lilywhite.

Mark B

10:17 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

o my dear spurs fans...one bad performance duznt make a bad side. Besides the good sides r the ones hu play badly and get results. If we can beat forest whichi think we will we generall y have a gd record at st.james park. Then blackburn or leicester in the semis?! Europe here we come..
PS. Don't sell keane, he's quality

10:22 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Trust in Jol.
Trust in Frank.
Back the team.
Support the individuals.

10:24 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think that people have the right to post what they think, i dont think booing is the right thing to do in any cicumstance, its just gonna make the player play worse. Atouba played really well against portsmouth and everyone was praising him then. I think alot of spurs fans do this, they change their mind about a player because of one poor performance. He is a quality player, he makes me nervous but some of his tackling is brazilian like and on his day is a fantastic player. Edman is good but is more defencive than atouba and maybe this is something Jol wanted. Reid and Atouba play well together and i wouldnt be surprised to see the two of them playing together this weekend against fulham. I also think mido should play and make kanoute think about trying harder. On the ball kanoute is a fantastic player but off the ball he is lazy. Mido tries hard all the time and deserves more chances.

10:26 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ive seen ALL of atouba"s performances and he IS shite..you say let him grow?? Ok then let him grow in the reserves!!
When he takes a throw in he even throws it to the other side!! Hes a poor mans Dalmat.Drop/sell him now.

10:35 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sure, Atouba was poor on Sunday. But what about Stephen Kelly? What has he done to justify a place in our ever-improving team?

At right-back, Phil Ifil is a precocious talent who deserves to be placed above Kelly and Pamarot in the pecking order. He is always on form for the youth & ressies and proved he can mix it with the best at the start of the season. To coin an old phrase "If you're good enough, you're old enough".

Erik Edman has a cultured left peg which would deliver gifts for a striker like Mido who is so strong in the air.

Zeigler has shown enough to suggest that is a marvel waiting to happen, but he needs to improve on his crosses at this time.

May I thank Martin for bringing the team together creating a harmony which hasn't been seen since the days of El Tel.

Robinson, Ifil, King, Naybet, Edman, Carrick, Davis, Reid, Davies, Defoe and Mido.

A team which would cause anyone problems...not to mention a bench of Cerny, Mendes, Keane, Kanoute & Dawson.

Great to have such depth these days. Forest will be beaten live on Sky. And should we gain a draw at St James...anything could happen.

10:55 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Atouba - GASH defender. As he has been for nearly 2 months now...

like Postiga and Rebrov, he's clearly got talent, but what has he done since his debut at the barcodes? it wouldnt be so bad if he was overlapping and getting into the final third.

Like posti and rebrovi, the premiership's clearly not the right place for him. All the bright and busy colours and cars and planes of London, must be so very exciting for Timmy - so much around to distract him, its no wonder his brains 3 minutes behind the game.

Looks like we're stuck with him for a while though; so I'm gonna make a video called "how to be Stephen Carr" and send it to him.

Good measure to see how far the club has come along tho: will we persist to 'build' a team with such underperforming misnomas? Or has N17 actually turned the corner and, finally, embraced the concept of 'facing facts'? Hopefully its the latter, that way we can all admit he's shit together... before palming him off to West Ham...

10:56 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Atouba is bollocks

11:09 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Atouba is about as good as a pile of smelly jockstraps

11:11 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Leave it out, you're making him sound like he's Lee Dixon, or something. Atouba is rubbish though I'll give you that.

11:12 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bring back Erik! No contest. Erik Edmanis in a different league to Atouba in terms of consistent quality. Not even up for debate - sort it out Martin.

11:13 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

and what is all this talk about 4-3-3???

Did anyone actually watch us against West Brom? Or England against Holland?

The only reason for all this 4-3-3 rhetoric was Chelsea's form up to now. But Chelsea (and even Man U) dont play 3 strikers, they play 1 striker and 2 attacking midfielders high up the pitch, down either flank. We DONT have the players to do that (although, if we had a left sided Simon Davies...)

Someone please tell me if they've seen Drogba, Gudjohnssen and Kezman line up at the same time? Or maybe even Van Nist, Smith and Saha?

Does anyone really think Mourinho is going to stick with 4-3-3 now Robben and (it seems) Duff are injured?

For the first time since... um... um... for the first time, we have 4, yes FOUR QUALITY strikers, fit and in the same squad. We all want to see them play, so lets not get carried away. If we're gonna go on a european tour at the end of next season, we're gonna need all of them - there is no way we can play 3 of them week in week out.

11:19 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Atouba is not as good as edman and shud be dropped at least for now in my opinion but having said that we watch tottenham for 90 minutes maximum a wekk martin jol watches the team everyday at training and as he knows far more about football than anyone of us i am inclined to trust his decision. i think mido is a real talent and will be perfect for the premiership. ifil is a very talented player but i think hes only 17 i dont know wether or not it would be a good idea to him to the 1st team

11:56 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think it might be time to start introducing dawson to the first team, naybet, experienced as he is is very slow and has been vulnerable to pacy players all season. If dawson is as good as i hear it makes sense to start using him as a substitute more and more often as naybet may not be around next year

11:59 PM, February 21, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

though spurs have a great squad with quality in all areas of the pitch im worried of the rumours of robbie keane leaving white hart lane

he is loyal to the club and by watching him it can be said that he tries his best...selling him would take a step backwards for tottenham.

if only all the other players were like robbie keane in their loyality to the club can we achieve anything

12:54 AM, February 22, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i agree. robbie keane is the best player at spurs..better than defoe who's loyality seems to be elsewhere!

1:11 AM, February 22, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree that atouba is not good enough for the spurs team he is young, but needs a lot of training and general improvement on his ball and passing skills but Erik Edman is not much better from what i have seen on sky and at the lane this season he like atouba panics and does not like people running at them rightly or wrongly Edman has cost us two peitalies this season with is going to be tough and go for 6th spot you have to think has he cost us points, Edman for me does not have the strength for a premiership defender its ok being the best defender in Sweden but we are not in Sweden Edman also has to prove himself in my view in the summer we might have to look for a new left back altogether if you sign players from the Dutch and Swiss leagues that’s what you get.

1:24 AM, February 22, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The performance of the whole team was simply shocking. Athoba was so bad that Commons looked world class. Kelly no better isolated alone on the right. Davies seems so intend on playing striker that he forgot he is a winger, I can't remember him crossing a ball or defending, Rogers the Forest leftback had a field day attacking down our right flank. Defoe'sball control is shocking, he had a simple tap in early in the game if he had control an easy ball. He has so predictable, hardly passes, only shoots. If we are going to depend on Carrick as our creative midfield, we better think again. If Robbo and King did what they did in an international match, can you imagine what the response would be? Probably dropped for life? It seems that our players simply do not want to play, they expect to just show up and the opponents will roll over. The lack of urgency and loss of concentration from the start to the end is unacceptable...

2:08 AM, February 22, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Agreed. Edman is definitely much better than atouba. Edman defends better, passes the ball better and creates more opportunities in attacking.

As for 4-3-3, it only applies when a team has a very solid defenders and midfielders. We're simply not ready for that unlike Chelsea. Just look at the premiership table and the gap between spurs and chelsea.

Jol has done a good job but he has the experience to see that we are not playing to the desired level with 4-3-3 formation and atouba around.

4:41 AM, February 22, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No good African defenders - what about Lucas Radebe - was he also shite???? - Leave Atouba alone he has all the raw talent and is potentially as good on the ball as the Wooden One - I thiok all of you are as good as Gerry Francis in spotting talent. Atouba will be a Spurs legend.

5:48 AM, February 22, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm a South African and that stupid fucking comment about African defenders makes my blood boil. Hell, some of the top sides in England don't even have space for English players anymore, and quite frankly you can see why: overpriced, overrated and they get praised for trying hard ("... he always gives 110% ...") instead of for playing fucking football!!! This is a sport, dammit, not a bloody JOB! How about putting some joy into it, you pom wankers. Thank god we've got a Dutch coach!

6:40 AM, February 22, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Come on boys we they need all the support, if WE our own fans are mocking them they stand no chance.I agree some players are a bit below expectations but they are still young.
However on the other hand if I was payed in excess of 10 grand a week wouldn't you want to die for the club ! I don't understand why Jol persist's with Kanoute though, he's had his fair share, now lets try something different.
Like everyone else I GET FRUSTRATED with some of the results, but i'm sure things will get much better.

7:45 AM, February 22, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Quote: [b][i]"Carrick never imposed himself on a Championship team which is something he needs to do if he is going to break the England squad"[/b][/i]...

Are you 'avin a larf ? The guy is nowhere near international quality !

8:17 AM, February 22, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think everyone should lay off Atouba a bit. Sure he's a bit over the top sometimes but he's only 22 and with Martin Jol there he could be a great player in 3-4 years time. Edman is a more natural left back i admit but saying that, he's given away 2 more penalties than Atouba has this season?? Defoe is quality, Kanoute & Keane need to become more consistant and hopefully Mido can live up to his debut. Along with Davis, Davies, Carrick, King, Robbo (the list goes on)things are looking up at The Lane. So rather than booing our young players who are still learning the game lets start thinking of the positives. We could still have Santini in charge, now that really would be something to moan about.....

8:27 AM, February 22, 2005

 
Blogger Raimundo_e17 said...

Are you guys serious? Let me tell you a couple of things. The signs with Atouba have been there for months... Even the Senile Sir Bobby Robson (god bless) could see that Atouba has only one foot. I can't believe he can only use one foot. This is the premiership for god sake!!! He is quite dreadful - he has no idea - and he is always getting caught in possesion - time and time again! Punt the ball up the Fvckin field some times! His crosses are no better.
As for Kanoute I can't believe you can't see what a great player he is. If Spurs punt the ball up the field Jermain has no chance - the ball is taken off him every time. Look at Kanoute next time he plays. He can hold the ball, bring others into play and make goals out of nothing. It's because he is so creative that he is the player with the deeper role, Defoe wouldn't have as many goals as he has without Kanoute... Far better than Keane who for all his hard work misses an alarming amount of one on ones with goalkeepers. It's too bad we can't have Reid playing in the Cup at Forest but I hope we get thru anyway.

8:29 AM, February 22, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Spurs fans adopt their favourites who can then do no wrong. Others get booed with little or no justification. Apparently it's OK for Zeigler to play crap because he's young. Carrick - the cheap man's Glenda - drifts through games at walking pace without comment. Keane's 2nd touch is always a tackle and he is truly dreadful, yet the mention of his name gets a cheer. Naybeth's passing beggar's belief and Stephen Kelly had a mare making mistake after mistake. From the start the team played with no wide men, with Zeigler and Davis tucked in, which was immediately obviously a tactical cock-up. However, somehow the well-informed Spurs fans pick on Atouba to boo. At least he makes an effort, something you could never accuse Robbie Keane of! And despite the tactical cock-up, Martin has joined the band-wagon and hung Atouba out to dry. Shame on you all.

8:32 AM, February 22, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Booing your own team's players in front of the opponents they're trying to beat? What's that about? Sounds fucked up to me.

8:47 AM, February 22, 2005

 
Blogger Raimundo_e17 said...

I just don't feel that making an effort is everything - this has to be accompanied by some skill. I have seen Zeigler play and against Arsenal I think we got a glimpse of what he is capable of. I have seen Atouba lots too and he has been making the same mistakes week in week out - he doesn't seem to be learning or improving. I hate people booing players and this should rightly be condemned. It serves no purpose and even aids the opposition. Martin Jol was right to give Atouba stick. He is a very good manager and can handle the phsycological side of the game too. Some players need praising and some are too overconfident, trying to do too much. Atouba needs to get back to the basics of simple passing... PS What happened to Marney?

8:49 AM, February 22, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

While i agree that atouba was dreadful in the second half and his crossing is woeful i honestly feel he was the best player on the pitch in the first, the only person to even show a spark of anything worthy of the spurs shirt. Maybe this is a reflection of just how badly the rest of the team played. Get Atouba out on the training pitch practising his crossing and he could be a very useful player, he seems to get himself into very good positions which is something very few of our other players seem to do when we play supposedly lesser opposition.

8:50 AM, February 22, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you're going to boo a player, at least boo someone who deserves it.

IMO a less talented player who puts his back into it dserves our full support. If you're going to pick on someone, then make it a player who doesn't make any effort whatsoever - Robbie Keane!

8:51 AM, February 22, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

al i can say, if you're gonna boo someone make it anthony gardner

9:04 AM, February 22, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Atouba is one of the biggest liabilities i have ever seen! he cant grasp that hes a defender and that in the english game, theyre job is not to be fancy but just to defned. his crossing and effort is poor and edman is a much better alll round player. I think old Thimotee has been on this mesage board himself, either that or his mum has cos someone has described him as pure quality! leave him alone! rubbish if he lets the side down give him abuse!

9:43 AM, February 22, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As a swede I would like to see Edman on the pitch again. He is awesome.

On the right I would like a player like Hatem Trabelsi. Alexander Östlund, another swedish full-back are great.

9:50 AM, February 22, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

is great

9:51 AM, February 22, 2005

 
Anonymous kevon said...

I was attracted to this page by the headline of 'atouba - why'

and without going into huge detail I think the question says it all, and would wonder what martin jol's answer would be when asked this

he tried drag backs in our own area, while he may be able to get away with this in the swiss league or wherever he played last season he cant do this against premiership (or even championship) opposition

edman has proved to be a good no-nonsense defender this season and can cross and pass the ball very well

I would also prefer to see ifil play out of position at left back than atouba as he looks to be promising and games like sunday would have only helped him grow

anyway what happened to me not going into detail eh.....

10:04 AM, February 22, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the guy needs to get used to premier league football, as easy as that.
The first season i saw ledley play he was terible. Even sol was a bit shite in his first season.
Jol has to get him to do the basics right of the english game - stop, look and pass, and that as a fullback the easy ball is the best ball. also, if he sees a crossing oppertunity, he's service is extremely poor, one of the worst i've seen. Needs serious help.

Looking at the team now, we cannot aford to put him in the side on his current form, especially if gardener and kelly are also playing (i rate these 2 the biggest problems) and the reliable Edman is available. Atouba is the most frustrating player on the field cause there is talent there, it just very badly expressed & controled.

as for african players cant defend: ur a fucking idiot

10:36 AM, February 22, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Spot on about that jackal atouba - dont get me started on that serial moaner Keane. Mido. Legend.

10:50 AM, February 22, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

do 36,000 stand up and cheer when the board goes up for him to come on? Why do they cheer his name when it is announced?

He is lazy, clueless, whinging, zero bottle, no effort, no tackling, and my mum's got a better first touch. Why do Spurs supporters continue to support the bloke with such enthusiasm?

At least Atouba makes an effort. He went down badly hurt on Sunday; but stright back up and into another tackle. I don't disagree that he's crap, but at least he tries!

Boo Keane if you have to boo someone. I hate players who don't try, especially ones with as much natural ability as Robbie Keane.

11:37 AM, February 22, 2005

 
Blogger weazey said...

i gree with the comments, atouba should not be doing his tricks in the left back position, its too much of a liability and too dangerous, most of the away goals ive seen at home this season have been caused by our own mistakes not good play from our opponents. atouba on his day is a very tricky player and could easily alternate with zieglar on the left of midfield and that would leave the left defensive position for edman.but in general things are looking good for us, its just a case of the players jelling which is going to take time. COME ON YOU SPURS......WEAZEY YID ARMY

12:02 PM, February 22, 2005

 
Blogger Steveqoz said...

Atouba..cannot mark, pass, cross,tackle or keep tight. He has no vision and is similar to Keane in the sense that he himself has no idea where he is going once he actually starts to run with the ball. This of course can confuse the opposition as well as us!
In short he is not good enough and will be replaced this weekend by Edman. On e question did Mendes sleep with someones wife? He has been our most consistant player all year but has disappeared off the radar.

12:10 PM, February 22, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Edman is a better LB than Atouba and I´m not saying that just because I´m swedish. Erik is the swedish defender of the year(not just in the swedish league).Swedens national team is just as good as Englands team.
The last win for England were 1968 (3-1 London)since then we have 3 wins and 7 draws. All I say is that The swedish defender of the year should be quite high on the ranking list !

COYS !!!
p.s. sorry for my bad english

1:13 PM, February 22, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Does everybody realise that if we lose to Fulham on Saturday, our maximum points for the season will be 69 - less than Chelseas's total if they beat West Brom. We'd be kissing the Championship goodbye for another season!

3:11 PM, February 22, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This Atouba stick is getting a bit out of hand, he is not the most accomplished defender in the world but he's better than Kelly or Gardner for starters and despite his habit of playing tricks on opponents dangerously close to his own goal, can anyone actually remember us conceeding a single goal because he has lost the ball when he has tried to do so? He had a bad game against Forest without doubt, but he has played well for us on many occasions this season and is both committed and entertaining. Why didn't just one of the boo boys in the Paxton or Shelf Side stands shout "Man On" when the Forest player ran from behind him to challenge Atouba and steal the ball instead of watching it happen and then booing him? Keane has been crap most of this season and often misses opportunities to recapture possession and the initiative because he is to busy moaning and whingeing, no one should be booed by the crowd but Keane shouldn't be praised and cheered to such an extent for such mediocre performances either. As for the left back competition, as another sage poster noted; at least Atouba doesn't keep giving penalties away like Edman. At the end of the day we should get behind the boys in Lillywhite for the duration of the match and make any complaints known afterwards as our constant maoning saps the players' confidence and gives the away team an advantage they should not have.

3:18 PM, February 22, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There's never been a good African defender? Did you not watch Leeds in the 90s? Radebe was up there with the best centre in the premiership.

Anyway back on topic. Atouba works hard and was getting a lot of big time praise before coming to England. Under no circumstances should a hard working player who's trying very hard to settle into a new country be booed by his own fans. Somebody mentionned Toures and some other gooner defender but they didn't become overnight successes. It takes time and for the first time in my life Spurs now have a strong squad full of youngsters. Atouba is one of these youngsters and i'm sure Edman will be back in the team in no time at all.

There were plenty of players off their game against Forest singling one out for criticism is pretty low.

3:35 PM, February 22, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Most recent posts here have been more mature on their view of Atouba.

The poor showing on Sunday, especially from the 4 wide people, must be largely down to poor tactics, with Zeigler and Davis clearly instructed to tuck in. It didn't work and full-backs were isolated as they attempted to break forward. I was concerned that Martin got on board with the boo-boy fans and starting blaming Atouba in the press for the poor display, rather than than taking his own share.

3:43 PM, February 22, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why would people want to boo our own players, you may think that he's had a bad game or he isn't good enough but what do you hope to achieve by booing him. MINDLESS IDIOTS GET A LIFE

4:01 PM, February 22, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Spurs seem to attract a bigger proportion of hysterical fans than other clubs. Perhaps they are a part of the problem we've been having for the past three decades. Or perhaps they are not really Spurs fans ...

4:05 PM, February 22, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

On the Spurs website Jol denies that he slammed any players - the media need an angle, he says - and admits to his responsibility for the side's performance.

4:16 PM, February 22, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i agree that edman should be playing before atouba but come on, africa never producing good defenders is a bit of a blanket statement you think? You haven't got far to look (just a bit to abouta's right in fact) to see Naybet who happens to be from Morocco which just so happens to be in Africa! Radebe, Trabelsi, Babayaro, Yobo ....

5:24 PM, February 22, 2005

 
Blogger Paxton Road said...

Thanks for visiting "The Shelf" guys and making this an interesting debate. Atouba clearly has his fans but I stick by what I wrote earlier - He either shapes up or ships out.

However booing a player, any Spurs player, is wrong and won;t help matters one little bit.

Carrick's aim is to be a regular international. I never said he has or would have the quality to do that, I mearly stated that if he is to reach his aim he needs to impose himself on opponents. Come back Sean Davis, quick.

6:41 PM, February 22, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Edman hasn't quite been the same since his injuries. As well as 2 pens conceded (one very unfortunate) I've seen him grab at opponents numerous times in matches when caught out of position, risking more pens. As for the booing, have you not noticed we have one of the youngest teams in the Prem - the last thing we need is to make them frightened to try anything. Just THINK before you open your gobs for gods sake. After Mido's fantastic debut its sad to see people immediately turning on Kanoute. He is NOT lazy, just appears very laid back. Try actually watching him for a whole match. Better still compare his effort/contribution to Defoes. Generally our poor results have come when Fredi's missing, not Defoe.

11:39 PM, February 22, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This debate (and others on the net) is quite encouraging, with a lot of reasoned opinion on the team, and realistic defence of Atouba. Only a few people have made articulate statements such as 'Atouba is shit, bollox, etc..'probably the same mindless sheep who booed him without thinking, thus undermining the whole team. Personally I'd prefer to see Edman, but if the majority in the stadium show the patience and rationality shown on here, then there's a chance our young team can flourish, despite the efforts of those with no patience.

11:46 PM, February 22, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think Atouba played dreadful against forest at the weekend, and believe Martin jol should have took him off when Kanoute and Ziegler came off. but just think ! a couple of months ago Freddie Kanoute was playing crap, i mean he just didnt seem his usual self! but look at him now hes put all that behind him and is playing spuperb lately! not just scoring goals but setting them up 2! Hopefully atouba can do the same!

Also i believe that we have the best youngsters in Europe! Martin and Frank have done a terrific job in the transfer window! Andy reid is a quality left footed player and can score some great goals 2, Dawson is a future england star, and Mido, well his performance against pompey was a dream debut. i think we have 4 of the best strikers in the premiership!

tottenham have been looking for years for the right manager , and weve never found Mr. right. But now Martin Jol, has come in and i fink by no doubt a absolulty top class manager!
cmon u yids keep up the good work and Martin ur doin a terrific job!!

9:07 AM, February 23, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

1. Zidane and Viera are both African - end of!

2. How can anyone seriously assert that Keane is one of the best strikers in the Prem. There is not a single aspect of his game (with the exception of whinging) which shapes up. Just watch him closely, it's dreadful.

9:47 AM, February 23, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There are some unbelievable posts on here "atouba's shite blah blah blah, cant do this doesn't do that", heres my two penneth

Personally I think we should all get off Atoubas back,
he's 22 moved to a new team in a new country, has had some injury problems and needs time to really bed in. He has C/L and UEFA experience with Basle so cant be all bad
The Pompey game showed how good he can be with an out an out winger infront of him (Reid). He gets forward and, with space, can put in a decent ball. Edman, whilst being a solid defender does not give us the attacking option down the left side. think back to a game where Edman has actually got into a position to put a cross in.

sounds like same old Spurs to me, how do you expect a player to play when he's getting cunted by his own?
lets get behind him, it might just do the trick

10:58 AM, February 23, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I´m a big spurs fan, and i don´t understand why atouba is in the starting line up when we have one of the best swedish players on the same position. And where was Mido? after scoring to goals in his first game, he starts on the bench.
But our biggest problem is at right back. We have two very talented players in Kelly and Ifil, but they they don´t have the level to play in the Premiership yet. we have to find a right back, when the transfer market opens again. Why don´t buy Brian Priske of Genk or Trabelsi of Ajax both solid defenders, but also very good offensive players, with exellent crossing abilitys.

11:14 AM, February 23, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don´t understand why Edman is playing so defensive. I watch him in the European Championship, and he played a lot more offensive and made exellent crosses. He plays so badly for spurs. When Ziegler was bought, he was a left back. why don´t try that, with Reid on left midfield. I think that the chance of making european football this year is small, so why don¨t try of the young players. watch this line up:

Robinson
Kelly King Dawson Ziegler

Davies Carrick Browny Reid

Defoe Mido

Bench:Fulop, Marney, Ifil, Mounir, Keane.

11:27 AM, February 23, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Atouba is a solid left back. What we need is a leader in the midfield. i hope MVB comes in the summer. And i would like to see SWP too. I think spurs have one of the most talented squads in Europe, it´s hard for me to see how they should fail to make a team who doesn´t play in champions league in a few years. king, Robinson and defoe just have to at the club...

11:46 AM, February 23, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The only way is up, BABY
With Jol and Marney...

12:05 PM, February 23, 2005

 
Anonymous kevon said...

LOL at whoever said zidane and vieira are african

the whole point was that 'THERE ARE NO GOOD AFRICAN DEFENDERS'

something I don't agree with but read the points properly dude

'eto'o is a great player' has no relevance to the guys point about shite african defenders

thank you please

4:16 PM, February 23, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Atouba is amazing for spurs......so amazing that i want his babies!!

3:17 PM, February 24, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You see what gets me isn't so much the debate about whether Atouba is crap or not...it's about the crowd having favourites and pet hates and being blind to the performances of their chosen players.

Why do all the Spurs fans like Michael Brown so much when he is so painfully average? No, seriously, he is spoken of as some kind of god on most of the forums? Why? He's no better than Steffen Freund IMO. He just runs around like a loon all day so everyone thinks he's great. "Gives 100%" etc.

Michael Brown does absolutely NOTHING for the team half the time except LOOK busy? How many tackles does he actually win? How much possession does he turn over? He just runs after the opposition closing them down without actually tackling! Why the hell is he in the team ahead of Mendes?

Anyway the same wankers who think Brown is god's gift to Spurs abuse Kanoute and say he's "shit" because he's lazy. Well HELLO DIPSHITS, let me tell u that Kanoute is vital to the team.

Obviously Defoe has to play most games as he's our best player. But Robbie Keane can't play with him. Why not? Well for a start, a player like Defoe always works best with someone that can hold the ball up and bring others (i.e. Defoe) into play. Defoe is too lightweight to win the ball himself around the box, he needs it layed off to him for some dazzling footwork or finishing. Keane CAN'T DO THIS. Infact, wtf people call Kanoute lazy and praise Keane for working hard when Keane actively DUCKS UNDER HIGH BALLS and NEVER CHALLENGES FOR THE BALL IN THE AIR EVER is beyond belief.

Kanoute works hard, he just has a weird running action that makes it seem like he's always moving slowly. But watch next time u see him. See how he leaves other player's in his wake even though it looks like he's just jogging. What about his play against WBA that got us the goal? What about his hold up play, skill and pace?
What about his control with all parts of his body?

As to Atouba, I think he might benefit from some time in the reserves, but he also needs first team football to ever fully develop and why not play him against Forest after a good display against Portsmouth? He has great skills and is a player that WANTS TO ENTERTAIN THE CROWD. Defenders should just defend and not do anything else? Why don't u go and watch another team m8 because that's not the kind of comment that Spurs have EVER been about.

1:39 AM, February 26, 2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am not convinced with Atouba / Brown. Yes some of our performances have been poor, but I think Andy Reid will be terrific, and Carrick has sublime skills. Kanoute is the best target man at Spurs with great skills. This is a very young squad, I have followed spurs through thick and thin for over forty years. Those people ( twats ) who boo our players should clear off and follow some other team. I believe Jol and Co will get it right. Come on u spurs

12:33 AM, March 01, 2005

 

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